Abortion, Protection of Life
During Pregnancy Bill, Politics, fine gael, labour, sinn fein
Peadar Toibin TD has stood firm in his position to protect unborn children, however, his proposed Amendment, to remove the 'suicide clause', was voted down. This clause effectively leaves the determination of the unborn child's life or death in the hands of psychologists and psychiatrists, two 'professions' that has shown themselves time and again to be able to reach polar conclusions in relation to the same case.
Minister of State Lucinda
Creighton has renewed her call for abortion time limits to be introduced where
a foetus is viable.
In an amendment that she is
expected to vote against the Government on and lose the Fine Gael party whip
and her job, Ms Creighton said she wanted to protect viable life and bring in
limitations on when terminations could be carried out.
“It would actually allay the
genuine concerns of many of our citizens,” she said during the report stage
debate on the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill, which resumed this
evening.
“We know that in the vast
majority of jurisdictions around the world where there are abortion regimes in
place, far more liberal regimes of the type I hope we never see in this
country, they do still enforce gestationsal limits, term limits for carrying
out abortions,” the Dublin South East TD said. “I think that this is the
minimum our citizens deserve.”
Two two amendments are
currently under discussion in the debate.
The session began hours
after the High Court refused to grant an injunction aimed at stopping
provisions of the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill being voted into
law.
Labour TD Roisin Shortall
also introduced amendments on gestational time limits and said it was
unacceptable that there were none in the Bill. She said concern about the issue
had been raised by Master of the Rotunda Sam Coulter Smith but there was no
serious attempt made to address those concerns.
Fianna Fail health spokesman
Billy Kelleher said he would oppose legislation if he thought for a moment if
he somehow though that a baby at 34 weeks would be taken from the womb and
destroyed.
Mr Kelleher said that if
they talked about gestational limits, “we are pitting the life of the woman
against the life of the baby” and “that would be repugnant to me and to the
Constitution”.
He said the overriding issue
at stake was the real and substantial threat to the life of the woman. “We
cannot intervene to terminate the pregnancy because it would be in conflict
with the legislation if we put in gestational limits.”
Minister of State for Health
Alex White said there was no answering Mr Kelleher’s point.
Fine Gael TD Peter Mathews,
who has already lost the party whip on the legislation, supported term limits.
He said termination at 12 weeks was just as repugnant as a termination later in
pregnancy.
In response, Ms Creighton
said it was putting a time limit on the destruction on the life of the unborn
and a clear obligation and onus on the medical profession to save the life of
the unborn.
Minister for Health James
Reilly and Mr Mathews clashed at the start of the debate this evening.
Mr Mathews asked the
Minister to define what the term “as far as practicable” meant in terms of the
medical situations that could arise under it.
Dr Reilly replied that it
was an acceptable legal term which was well understood. “It is not clear to
me,” said Mr Mathews.
Dr Reilly replied: “That is
fine; you are neither legal nor a doctor.”
Mr Mathews replied that he
was “a citizen”.
Earlier, the Minister moved
a series of amendments which, he said, gave clarity to the medical definition
of terms “in good faith” and reasonable opinion” in the Bill.
People Before Profit TD
Richard Boyd Barrett said there should be trust in doctors, adding that the
amendments were just a concession to certain people who wanted to hold back and
frustrate the legislation’s purpose which was to allow for a termination where
there was a threat to the woman’s life.
Over 100 of the 165
amendments to the Bill have yet to be debated during the Report stage.
The Dáil is due to adjourn
the abortion debate by midnight regardless of whether or not it has been passed.
Taoiseach Enda Kenny said this morning if the Bill can conclude today, “so much
the better”.
So far, two votes have been
taken but neither relate to the amendments proposing a “pathway to care” plan
for pregnant women with suicidal intent tabled by Ms Creighton. She voted with
the Government on those two amendments at 2am and at 5am.
The High Court ex parte
application was made by Jane Murphy, with an addresss at Milltown, Dublin 14
this afternoon and is expected to appeal Mr Justice Nicholas Kearns’ refusal to
the Supreme Court.
She was accompanied in court
by former MEP Kathy Sinnott and Mark McCrystal. In intended proceedings against
the Taoiseach, the Minister for Health and the Government, Ms Murphy sought
injunctions “to prevent the respondents usurping the will of the Irish people
on the day of Thursday 11th of July 2013”.
The application stated the
intention was to prevent the Government including two provisions in the Bill
currently before the Oireachtas and also to prevent the vote on that Bill.
Mr Justice Kearns said he
was satisfied he had no jurisdiction to grant any such relief. This matter was
before the legislature and the court, under the doctrine of the separation of
powers, had no entitlement to deal with it. He did not believe the court, at
this stage of the matter, had any entitlement to interfere.
Minister for Transport Leo
Varadkar said this morning that if the President referred the Bill to the
Supreme Court it would be “the right decision”. Many parts of the Bill would be
challenged by people coming from different perspectives, he said. “If he refers
it, it can just be either cleared or struck down once and for all with no
further challenges. If he did I think that would be the right decision. But
that’s entirely his prerogative not mine,” he told RTÉ Radio.
Earlier today Mr Kenny
defended the late overnight sitting in the Dáil. He said there were “some very
good contributions” and it was “no harm that it went to 5am”.
However, Fianna Fáil leader
Michael Martin described the organisation of the overnight debate as
“shambolic” and “lamentable”.
The Labour Party was thrown
into disarray early this morning by the shock defection of its Clare TD Michael
McNamara in a vote .
In dramatic scenes just
before the debate on the Bill was adjourned, Mr McNamara voted against the
Government on an amendment tabled by the technical group which called for
abortions to be allowed in cases where there were fatal foetal abnormalities or
inevitable miscarriages.
However, the party
maintained later that Mr McNamara would not lose the whip as he had made a
“genuine mistake” and had pressed the wrong button. Tánaiste and Labour Party
leader Eamon Gilmore was not in the Dáil for the vote as he is abroad on
Government business.
Following the announcement
yesterday by two Mayo TDs John O’Mahony and Michelle Mulherin that they would
support the Bill, the other TD whose voting intentions were in doubt - John
Paul Phelan of Carlow-Kilkenny - also confirmed to the Dáil at 1.30am that he
too would be supporting the legislation despite having misgivings about the
Bill.
His confirmation that he
would support the Government - which was widely expected - has left a total of
five Fine Gael TDs at odds with the party on this Bill. Besides Ms Creighton,
the other TDs are Mr Mathews, Brian Walsh, Billy Timmins and Terence Flanagan.
The Labour Party had, until
Mr McNamara’s vote, shown a strong party discipline and had consciously
maintained a slightly background stance, because of the sensitivities of Fine
Gael’s position.
The defection of Mr
McNamara, even if Labour manages to repair its hand and reverse it, has damaged
that show of unity and also dampened what was considered a successful effort by
the Fine Gael leadership to contain its defections to a maximum of five TDs.
The debate on the report
stage of the Bill commenced at 11.30am yesterday and continued for a cumulative
total of 14 hours after the Taoiseach said he wished the Dáil to complete its
deliberation of it by this morning. However, with no guillotine in place, Government
Chief Whip Paul Kehoe initially announced an extension until midnight, and then
until 5am.
The Bill was scheduled to
transfer to the Seanad today but that will not now happen until tomorrow at the
earliest.
The first substantive vote -
to reject an amendment tabled by Peadar Tóibín of Sinn Féin to remove the
suicide clause in its entirety - was carried by 135 to 24 votes.
Many Independents voted with
the Government but Maureen O’Sullivan, Michael Lowry, Michael Healy-Rae and
Mattie McGrath voted against.
The vote was taken after
more than eight hours of debate on a group of 38 amendments from a number of
TDs, dealing with the suicide clause, where termination is permissible to avoid
suicide.